federal legislation like obamacare that mandates each of us have this list of things covered by health insurance, that supports the third-party nature of our system. another problem, and this is typical, some people think we can get rid of obamacare and do nothing to replace it. but the fact of the matter is if we go back to the world before obamacare, there was not a free market in health care then either. one of the important problems was the distortion that favors people with employer-sponsored health insurance. >> insurance with somebody else paying. the only answer is the market and people are scared of that. more on these debates when we return. i think there was too much talk about a big wall.

in the presidential debate, most of the candidates supported legal immigration. but kasich and trump said we've got to build that wall. we're back with our panel. deroy murdoch of "national review." hadley heath manning of "the independent women's forum." austin peterson of "libertarian republic." it's popular to say, build a wall. and they could do it. and mexico will pay for it. what's wrong with that? >> yeah, that just goes to show if you're a republican you can push as much socialism as you want, but if you say you want to build a wall, you are guaranteed to get a vote. so to me i think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the free market view on

economics when it comes to immigration because nobody wants to pay $10 for a cheeseburger. everybody on a consumer standpoint likes to have lower prices. when we have migrant labor, whether legal or illegal, it brings prices down. if you're for a free market you have to be for a free market and labor -- >> that's why they hate us libertari libertarians. >> i know. >> for this bizarre, oblique reasoning. you ought to come here legally, as trump said amnesty is unfair to those in line. >> did the pilgrims come legally? >> no, but it's different now. people want to kill us, we have an established country we're trying to protect. most of the illegals don't even come here from mexico or across the place where they would build a wall. >> i think trump's right. my mom and dad are from costa rica. they didn't run across the border. they went to the u.s. embassy, they filled out the paperwork, they came in legally with passports and visas. >> they couldn't today. america makes it impossible. >> we need to make legal

immigration possible and manage that. i've got a friend from russia. he came in legally. he's been trying to get a green card and all that sort of thing. i understand he spent $80,000 getting all of his legal paperwork to get this situation where he's been able to get a green card. i jokingly said, you should have run across the bored border, it would have been easier. we need to make legal immigration streamlined and make sense. we need to be fair to the people waiting in line and not jump over those people and say, all right, you've been here illegally, we'll give you free stuff. >> free education, all that stuff. >> 40, 60, 130 years if you're a mexican teenager. >> exactly. in fairness to republicans this issue divides them greatly. you could hear from the applause lines on either side. i think securing the border is something that gets applause, whether or not you say specifically you're going to build a wall. but there are pro-growth, pro-opportunity republicans who favor some kind of immigration reform that would allow for more legal immigration and growth in the labor supply. >> marco rubio and jeb bush.

they tend to be more libertarian on immigration. donald trump is more like the -- like bernie sanders, they both believe those immigrants are taking or jobs. >> and they paint the economy like a zeem rzee row sum gain. >> tax reform, carson wants 10%. it's inspired by god. in the bible, in samuel 8:17, the jews want a king. prophet says, you don't want a king, he'll take 10% of your flocks, you well pecuniary the servant. >> we should be so lucky. >> 10%, that was a threat then. now it's 40%. about. >> can we vote for that king? >> god said give us a king and this was a warning to the israelites they shouldn't give someone total power over them. that is a libertarian lesson. jesus said, give to caesar what is caesar's and give to god what

is god's. there are libertarian christians who believe in private charity and private tithing. i think ben carson has his heart in the right place. proops where he goes to get his support may not be an economics textbook that i would prefer but his heart is in the right place and he's a good man and i appreciate his thoughts. >> 10% would be a great thing. it's remarkable it's so different from what samuel considered horrible. >> i've written about this. the national taxpayers, rough figures, what if we had a tax plan, no deductions whatsoever, everybody paid in? what tax rate would you need it to be? roughly revenue-into it neutral. he said 9.8%. 10% would bring about the same amount of revenue, no deductions so we wouldn't have the tax code, everybody has skin in the game. you may get more benefits out than you pay in but everyone has to pay in -- >> they say the tax foundation favors rubio's plan? >> in terms of economic growth, that's correct.

because they say that not only will his tax plan change the individual rates. it's not a flat tax, it's not a fair tax. there's still a progressive income scale for people based on their income. but they also -- the rubio plan at least allows for some chapter-s corporations and sole proprietorships to file basically the same as a corporate tax rate, under the rubio plan 25%. that change would allow for job creation and treat small businesses and larger businesses on a level playing field. >> i don't like any of these tax plans to be honest. they pass cigarette taxes to say, oh, we want to stop people from smoking. what are income taxes supposed to stop people from doing? making income. >> good line. in some countries, like hong kong, they have a three-page or shorter form and it works. next, you our audience, all students tonight, high school and college, you get to give your take on the debate.

let's go to you with your

comments. on twitter, best debate yet. actual policy questions asked, not gotcha questions. put a sock in carly fiorina's mouth. yap, yap, yap. she's hilly in a skirt. she did go past the bell. wasn't that rude? you have questions. who's first? go ahead, sir. >> what are your thoughts on the discussion that senators paul, rubio, and cruz had on the size of the u.s. military? what do you think the size of the u.s. military should look like, and what do you think our involvement should be in other countries? >> europe's freeloading off us. it's too big. >> as i i was saying during the break, this debate between liberty and security or how big the military should be is always present. but after the news events of this year, given the refugee situation in europe, isis in the middle east, the videos we all saw of people being beheaded, i it this american public is favoring a larger military presence right now.

and so politically, this issue seems to be pointing towards most of spending in that area. >> oh, joy. next? >> so after criticizing and giving your opinions about the tax plans that the delegates game, i mean candidates, what are your plans and what do you think you'd do to change it? >> if i were president of the united states, i would like to see a flat tax of 0%. >> oh, come on. we need money to run -- >> to run government. >> value-added tax. >> i would have a flat tax of zero if it were possible. a flat tax would be the best to know because we'd know how to do our taxes and that would i'd the burden. frankly i don't see much of a role for government in our lives except perhaps police, military roads. i'd privatize the road. my tax plan, flat. >> i'm new york city chairman of the college republicans and

would the federal government writing these blank checks to subsidize student loans, how do we alter a system that's encouraged irresponsible, skyrocketing tuition costs at institutions of higher education? >> how many of you are getting a government check to pay for your school? if you're a high school student you get free stuff so a few of you. pay for it themselves? >> it's kind of hard to dial this back. i know that the high interest rates people are paying -- i remember the part of the obamacare bill, this is usually not talked about very much, but basically nationalized the student loan program. when the private banks were involved, you did have lending but the interest rates were lower. this is all being run by the federal government and the interest rates have gone up. when you hear obama say, i can't believe these students pay such high interest, he's the one charging the high interest. >> who's next? >> in what ways exactly is illegal immigration affecting and ruining our economy? >> we don't think it is. right? >> illegal immigration?

i can't see the damage to our economy that illegal immigration would do. >> clearly it takes away some people's jobs, some people lose. >> are you saying people who can barely speak english are taking jobs away from americans? >> i am. i'll work for less money, i don't speak english. somebody who speaks english loses a job. >> a lot of illegal immigrants do work americans don't do. it comes to an expense when people decide they need our medical systems, hospitals, emergency many roos. there's a huge impact in terms of public assistance for people who are not in this country, are not american citizens, didn't come in here -- didn't ask our permission before coming in. but, but, they also give us things. >> they do, absolutely, they do. >> they invent things, they pay taxes. often they don't collect social security because they're illegal. >> they do a lot of work and we definitely need to recognize that. fundamental question is that they're here without our permission. then again, some of them receive public assistance, that becomes very expensive.

democrats say, if you're an illegal immigrant we want to give you in-state tuition costs. which is really public assistance and that's expensive. >> one last one. >> the tax plan rand paul criticized for not being conservative. do you believe all plans need to be conservative? >> i think republicans should try to offer something different from what democrats are offering. if this becomes a race of benefits, how much money can we give you through different types of social assistance, the democrats will win. but it's important to point out, when marco rubio offers a child tax credit, it's different from a child care tax credit. >> thank you, panel. coming up, what should a candidate do when moderators ask dumb questions like this one? >> what would you want your secret service code name to be? >> i thought the fox moderators asked good questions. my answer to the bad questions next. about budget

numbers or government programs, provinces in iraq. that's difficult. could you do it, audience? what do you think? [ collective no ] >> that's an honest answer. i know i would struggle. especially when the questions are random or stupid. tonight's questions were pretty good. the previous debates? here's one. >> what is your biggest weakness and what are you doing to address it? >> how are candidates supposed to answer that in a political debate? mike huckabee got a laugh by saying this -- >> i don't really have any weaknesses that i can think of. >> he went on to joke that his wife could name his weaknesses. governor bush then said, i can't fake anger.

that's his biggest weakness? senator rubio said, thank you for that question. thank you? why? it's a bad question. donald trump said, i trust people too much. excuse me? that's his weakness? carly fiorina came up with this answer. >> at the last debate i was told that i didn't smile enough. >> fixed it! >> fixed it, a little put-down. but it's hard to give useful answers to questions like that. or ones like this from the last cnn debate. >> the united states secret service uses code names for the president and his family. ronald reagan's code name, for example, was rawhide in homage to his performances in westerns. >> he went on to ask the candidates, what should your code name be? i wish one responded "cnn hater."

"i resent your flippant questions." but i really wish one said something like this. "i will cut back the secret service because america is going broke, we have to cut government. the secret service, like all government agencies, has grown into a giant beast. one that's so incompetent they let a stranger walk right in the front door of the white house. but they're still so big and intrusive that they disrupt all life when a president travels. a president, heck. i once appeared on nbc with john snow, george w. bush's treasury secretary. hardly anyone knew who snow was. probably more people wanted to kill me than kill snow. but because snow had his government position, four secret service agents protected him, owe firstly ordered everyone else out of the room. we have to protect this gentleman. when i'm president, i'll have a much smaller security detail. and no, i'm not going to announce my code name to the

entire country on your show. but i guess candidates can't talk like that. but i wish one would. and would go on to say, the secret service is just a tiny example. if you students are to have a future, we have to cut most things government does and reduce the growth of government. people my age now collect much more from government than we put in. and there aren't enough of you to pay for us old people. after all, when social security was created, most people didn't even live to age 65. now, on average, it's 78 years. and life spans increase by, on average, eight hours per day. government can't pay for all of us. but i want my medicare! i rudely refuse to die! are you guys ready to turn over almost all your money to people like me? cover my health care? no?

well, you shouldn't have to. but because most of the candidates here around me will not support any major cuts, your future is toast. the democrats are worse. heck, they want to spend more on social security. and give people more free stuff. college, free phones, free birth control. as if all things come from government. your future will be good only if we cut government, or at minimum, reduce the growth of government, to 2% a year. 2%. shouldn't that be possible? that's still more than inflation now. does government have to grow twice as fast as inflation every year? no. but it always grows. every year. more than inflation. because my political opponents won't cut anything. we should end all bailouts. foreign aid. corporate welfare. cut regulation by half. and so on. i doubt we'll hear that.

not from the next few debates. but maybe, someday. and that's our show. see you friday for a new show at our normal time, 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

>> oliver: tonight, on war stories tonight on "war stories." legendary war crimes in tokyo. >> you'll meet the colorful prosecutors. >> he was very brusque, crude individual. he had a taste of drinking too much. >> we'll take you inside the courtroom dramas. >> it's a struggle for final justice. that's next on "war stories."